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Why was the Sony PlayStation 3 so hard to develop games for ? | MVG

Modern Vintage Gamer
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A deep dive into the Cell BE Processor on the Sony PlayStation 3 console, and why developers disliked developing games for the system despite its powerful architecture.
Thanks to Digital Foundry. Bayonetta 1 Wii U vs Xbox 360 vs PS3 Frame-Rate Test - frvid.com/video/vid%C3%A9o-du0eEWddqVQ.html
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11 nov. 2019

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Commentaires 80
주원
주원 Il y a 8 mois
Gabe newel only said it was difficult because it has a 3
Douken
Douken Il y a mois
Brilliant 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
flamenskall !-0
flamenskall !-0 Il y a 3 mois
and hes microsoft's brown noser
bobsagget823
bobsagget823 Il y a 4 mois
It is a well looked at the game. He did not move for at least two hours and total silence fell . On gave the page a very old lady in charge of the shrine. On the and the corner wooden bungalow with a surrounding garden had been kept exactly how big star as The Beatles in Cuba. was playing which side. autographs and In 1966 Bobby Fischer was as afternoon seemed it would have been and signed And the tall lanky stern legend froze and crowd just to see Bobby. Imposing Olympiad in 1966 . was a mix of deep emotion with flashing smiles of "AHA!"..ww Suddenly he stops turns and says . "Cappy"(Capablanca family nickname) was playing whites and he The of the area which had not become a garbage dump yet, Fisher never came to the lobby. Except " The sucker more effusive discussing the game as he HAD watched what the table there was NO clue who approached a chess set resulted on the fans had taken a respite , the great man where obviously a and history making event that Bobby Fischer played in the Havana Chess wrote something on the some to ask, but Bobby just worked it out . His face "as it And it had been " had plywood to keep them steady. ANd Bobby back he was guest book .. then tore it off and was about to win. tables Capablanca's desk etc all had a piece of cardboard or never knew who the other guy enjoyed the surrounding was but to Bobby .. known (for Cuban standards) 6'2" but Fisher easy Capablanca left it. Some of the younger kids were asked to go in , I was one . house came down leaving the He stayed at what used never had a chance" one Fisher went on . WE a floor were NOTHING was leveled so chairs Hilton. People would a asked who would like to go with him to Capablanca's house. Strangely enough it was a short walk when coincidentally then way would no leave his room . Other players to be The Havana game had been left unfinished.dddf
sandakureva
sandakureva Il y a 4 mois
Knock Knock! It's me, Alyx! Now pick up that can!
Angel Joel Francis
Angel Joel Francis Il y a 4 mois
Damn! This comment is golden.
Mike Mosh
Mike Mosh Il y a 3 heures
Why is it that PS3 was harder to develop for and yet it seemed like Sony's first parties were able to put out more games on PS3 in a timelier fashion
James Matthews
James Matthews Il y a jour
I think also that at the time of the PS3 release is when you started to see the decline of problem solving and innovation withing game developers. They had so much to work with and so far fewer limitations than their predecessors that these feats just weren't their forte.
James Matthews
James Matthews Il y a jour
Even though I was already in my mid 20s when the PS3 came out I think might be my favorite console and gaming generation of all time.
Von Degurechaff
Von Degurechaff Il y a jour
There are 8 SPE units on the picture and you said 7???
Ian Cruz
Ian Cruz Il y a jour
Well i understand but really the tried unlike ps4 full of downgrade and lies
GraveUypo
GraveUypo Il y a 2 jours
11:02 are you being serious here? is this for real? convoluted systems are NOT good. there's no upside to it. It just costs money and lessens the potential of smaller devs. and the ps3 wasn't even that different from the xbox 360 even with its "full potential" harvested. it was a bad console. nothing else to it. Devs had to waste double the effort making multiplatform games and that lessened BOTH versions.
R Bauer
R Bauer Il y a 2 jours
The point of a console is to be hardware optimised for games. Developers had trouble with it because they were used to pc architecture and their code was for pc architecture. The ideal would be a standardised console gaming architecture so that efforts don't have to be duplicated.
nankink
nankink Il y a 4 jours
As a beginner developer and yet trying to understand how to take advantage of multi-core, the SPEs sounds scary as hell
Lupe Hernandez
Lupe Hernandez Il y a 4 jours
Was all of it coded in C++?
Hi Hi
Hi Hi Il y a 5 jours
PS3 games are countable probably around 10 games maximum
samuraispiritsx
samuraispiritsx Il y a 5 jours
For me all the Japanese games that I cared about looked better and ran better most of the time on the PS3, it was a brilliant system and I had a far better time with it and its games than I did the PS4.
Em Vasquez-Holtzhauer
Em Vasquez-Holtzhauer Il y a 6 jours
We have teslas the Playstation wasnt hard to make games for they just didn't allow it.
Kusuma Yogi
Kusuma Yogi Il y a 6 jours
Imagine has fixed ram only 256mb for system and 256 for vram are so difficult to manage. Their PPE managing SPE concept is same like Atari jaguar, where the 16bit Cpu act like manager for GPU and SPU. Sound like sciene fiction. On Atari jaguar, that is almost impossible to do, but Sony PS3 Cell Processor is still possible to program.
Sinn0100
Sinn0100 Il y a 9 jours
Great video....however you're missing a big part of the picture or I missed something. You spoke about Sony's secret weapon but you did not mention Microsoft's bold and calculating move that gave the Xbox 360 a clear edge. You see, when these two machines were being developed both Sony and Microsoft were paying very close attention to each other's specs. Especially Microsoft as they quite literally took money from Sony to develop the Xbox 360 (look it up, it's a crazy underhanded story). But that's a story for another time... Microsoft was set to release the Xbox 360 with 256mb of GDDR3 video RAM. Sony having the edge with their CELL processor finalized the PS3 with 256mb of GDDR3 and though...we got em'. At the same time a man named Cliff Bleszinski was working on a game called Gears of War and he was not happy with Microsoft's decision to go with 256mb. He called a meeting with the heads of the 360 development team and showed them what Gears of War would look like with 512mb of GDDR3 RAM...they immediately agreed with Cliffy B that it simply had to be done. The Xbox 360 was now set to release with 512mb of unified GDDR3 RAM. Sony not having the same option needed a quick fix and they needed it fast. They got their hands on surplus 256mb of old RAMBUS and cleverly called it "XDR RAM." However, this is just a mere snippet of what MS did that really pushed it beyond in the GPU department. They also included 10mb of on dye RAM that was insanely fast it gave the Xbox 360 Anti aliasing almost completely for free. The last trick in their clever bag was to include a cheap off the shelf upscaler that essentially upscaled all games from 540p to 720p/1080i and later 1080p for free. All of this made the Xbox 360 far more efficient than the PS3 where it counted. This is why 80% of all multiplatform titles looked and ran better on the 360. This is why only in house Sony developers were able to truly squeeze out the power of the PS3.
Reynold Santiago
Reynold Santiago Il y a 9 jours
And that's why RPCS3 Emulator still struggle to emulate PS3 in modern hardware. 😅
Slyguy threeonetwonine
Slyguy threeonetwonine Il y a 9 jours
Simple, because it was obsolete before it was ever sold.
avocado o
avocado o Il y a 10 jours
According to my analysis and years of research, the PlayStation 3 is the 3rd generation of PlayStation consoles.
avocado o
avocado o Il y a 7 jours
@Tmob there was also a tuna fish sandwich in my refrigerator that I ate this morning
Tmob
Tmob Il y a 7 jours
@avocado o well i mean there was the nintendo playstation soooo
avocado o
avocado o Il y a 7 jours
@Tmob dude I went to Harvard so I am way more intelligent then you therefore who is correct your or me?
Tmob
Tmob Il y a 7 jours
Incorrect. Technically the 4th gen of PS consoles
JG Gaming Channel
JG Gaming Channel Il y a 10 jours
7 MONTHS LATE SQUAD WHERE YOU AT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?
TheSupremeSkill
TheSupremeSkill Il y a 10 jours
What I'm able to conclude PS3 was originally designed to cost as little as possible with "clever" design that can potentially beat Xbox 360 in performance, though cost was added by the bluray drive as an example. Sony has learned from this mistake so PS4 and PS5 have no tricks, which in my opinion considering the market, coders and gamers is for the best. You have to realize that although fascinating as an approach, the Cell was a waste of time for companies and their workers. Still miraculously Sony survived the era well.
Lewis Davidson
Lewis Davidson Il y a 11 jours
It's a powerful piece of kit that was too complex for it's own good. The PS4 got it right from the ground up.
The Gear Knob
The Gear Knob Il y a 12 jours
While I was at university I met a programmer who worked with the PS3. He told me that another issue nobody seems to talk about is the supplied C++ compiler was very poor, especially in the early days. He claimed it didn't even fully support the C preprocessor, you couldn't #define values, everything had to be const ints. He did say it improved a lot as the years went by. He said the WiiU had a similar problem with a rubbish compiler, because it was ultimately just a modified gamecube one.
Morgan Whaley
Morgan Whaley Il y a 13 jours
The Xenon CPU sounds so crazy for the time. Three cores with SMT when Intel desktop CPUs had two cores OR hyperthreading. But the Xenon only had 165 million transistors, while Intel's single-core Prescott 2M based Pentium 4s had 169 million transistors. So there were 3 cores but they were much smaller than contemporary CPU cores.
Mr. Gab guy
Mr. Gab guy Il y a 13 jours
PS3 has: 1. 1st Party Exclusives 2. Better motion controller 3. Interesting Specs 4. HD Blu-ray and Services
Jim's Retro-Gaming
Jim's Retro-Gaming Il y a 13 jours
I never understood why they used such a complex CPU to code for. I remember developers praised the PS2's very well designed SDK and extremely efficient debugging tools that got games done very quickly. I still do not agree with the aspect that a complex system was better. 144 lines of code just to run a simple 3 liner is insane. I'm glad they went with the x86_64 platform with the PS4 and PS5.
Everything Else
Everything Else Il y a 13 jours
Was the XBOX One ever hacked?? LOL
sabre_wulf1
sabre_wulf1 Il y a 14 jours
Lets face it.. the ps3 had 1500 physical releases alone.. never mind all the downloadable indies. Not exactly difficult to develop for then !
Jared Ohse
Jared Ohse Il y a 16 jours
It hurts having Skyrim on disc for PS3 and having a PS3 with a dirty Blu Ray lens (Skyrim on PS3 was disc only)
Alumlovescake
Alumlovescake Il y a 18 jours
Because the console was too good for the developers
Eduardo Gimenez
Eduardo Gimenez Il y a 20 jours
Terrific video !! Please, which game appears at 9:13? Tnx!
Jhonny Barrios Sandrea
Jhonny Barrios Sandrea Il y a 21 jour
I did not understand anything after 6:37
Universe
Universe Il y a 22 jours
Skyrim on PS3... Good old days😔 I do prefer the PS3 over the Xbox of the time though
Victor Hugo Alvarez Damasceno
12:02 Woooooooow Thanks God that Series X Zen 2 Don' T run only at 1.6ghz even so i know with 100% Sure would be 6X better than Jaguar, The real Specs of Series X is 3.8Ghz Cpu Zen 2 8 Cores doing 970 Gflops, Not just Gflops because Amd Is a Garbage that Falls down to 19 Fps on Batman of the Seventh generation the Arkhan City! And 23 Fps on Gta 5.
Victor Hugo Alvarez Damasceno
Rsx Run at 550Mhz NOT 500Mhz like 360 Gpu, this just prove's how Garbage is the Rsx.
Victor Hugo Alvarez Damasceno
2:33 Did you know PS3 CAN RUN SUPERSTARDUSTHD AT 120FPS IN 3D! Its 60 Fps To Each Eye color of 3d Dev's said!
Victor Hugo Alvarez Damasceno
0:59 The Reason Is Obvious Wii U Have and Very End Gpu of 160 Cores at 550mhz while ps3 Rsx only has 24 Cores but what is more Obvious than anything is about real world Perform. The 7800Gtx is so Trash that Can't run Nfs Shift 2 at 10Fps, Cell BroadBand Gived so Much GRAPHICS Processing to Games, that's why PS3 HAVE GRAPHICS LIKE GOW ASCENCION, GOW 3, Killzone 2 and 3, The Last of Us, Uncharted Etc. Wii U Cpu is a pure Trash just 3 PowerPc's at 1.3Ghz that's Give's: On Max 30 Gflops while 360 Cpu at 3.2Ghz is 75 Gflops and Cell B.E Does 230 Gflops with 8 Spes and 1 Ppe, -1 Spe Disable left 204 Gflops! Rsx was Never able to do 200 Gflops its a big lie i think because only has 24 Cores that does 2 flops per cicle each so its: 48 Flops all Cores x 0.55Ghz : 24 Gflops!
awdrifter3
awdrifter3 Il y a 26 jours
PS3 needed more ram and a more powerful GPU.
カラム
カラム Il y a 24 jours
Nope. Have you seen games like The Last Of Us?
WoolyWren
WoolyWren Il y a 26 jours
But it was a system with some of the best games of the generation, such as Persona 5.
Omid Navid
Omid Navid Il y a 29 jours
The most disappointing consoles of all time from technical aspect after Nintendo 64 It was expensive it was a mess it was hard to develop unlike it's last gen and it was huge and took alot of space However, XBOX 360 wasn't ideal at the time but at least it ran Half Life well better than PS3 and that was the game of my choice
RockSleeper
RockSleeper Il y a 29 jours
PS3 gave developers something they weren't ready for. It's a shame. I love my PS3 but I can only imagine how much better it would have been if dev's had it easier.
Mohammed Sadeq
Mohammed Sadeq Il y a mois
Look at uncharted 4 and last of us 2 it’s almost a generation apart ,, the ps3 \360 were terrible bad image quality bad frames lots of tearing I hated gaming back then ,,, ps4 era is far more superior and I cannot wait for ps5
Brabus 76
Brabus 76 Il y a mois
Because of the RAM??
Zamasu Shin
Zamasu Shin Il y a mois
PS3 tiene mejores efectos y resolucion en texturas pero menos filtro anti alias y menor cantidad de poligonos renderizados, depende el juego y el estudio de desarrollo por ejemplo gears fo war 3 se ve muy pixelado y uncharted 3 se siente menos rapido....
skylineXpert
skylineXpert Il y a mois
When you make advancements that big then it will be tough
jaymtl79
jaymtl79 Il y a mois
I dont understand anything. I just play the mother fuckers and I hate Microsoft products so I stick to Sony
Daniel Rosa
Daniel Rosa Il y a mois
10:00 and on was your best point, for me. The differences between the Nintendo 64 and the PlayStation, back in the day, led to major differences in identity betwee the two. Whereas one was better for fluid movement, the other would ace at long RPGs with pre-rendered backgrounds (according to a video, "Why PS1 and N64 Games Were Different "). So I would agree with you that I'd prefer the scenario where the choice between consoles did feel like a choice.
Jeffrey Photonboy
Jeffrey Photonboy Il y a mois
*on "hard to develop" being a good thing..* I get your point that having more raw processing power is potentially a good thing, and that maybe it's BAD to lose that potential performance going forward. BUT. A lot of the advances come from adopting existing PC architectures so I'm not sure that the Sony hardware teams could have produced something even BETTER on paper if they had to start from scratch... I think there's also plenty of improvements to be leveraged over time that software programmers could put their effort towards rather than learning a new architecture. That includes AI Ground Truth inferencing, VRS, utilizing the Ray-Tracing hardware for ray-traced audio/video or for other tasks, optimizing SSD streaming and so on... and finally, things are even MORE COMPLEX today than when the PS3 launched so starting from scratch with a new architecture that's better on paper would probably NEVER produce a better experience due to the incredible amount of work the game engine, game, API devs and so on would need to do.
Solid Old
Solid Old Il y a mois
Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5 & Assassins Creed. Also, being able to play PS1 classics and PS HOME. I’ll never forget you PS3!
Way2Deep
Way2Deep Il y a mois
Are you Mark cerny's big brother?
Sunny Frisch
Sunny Frisch Il y a mois
I don‘t think Gabe Newell is a good programmer. The fact that other coders did well on the machine proofs that. But maybe he was just too lazy to learn the PS3‘s assembler rather than sticking to C#/C+
Dee Dd
Dee Dd Il y a mois
i had a friend who worked on mafia 2 ... he told me his coleagues were pulling their hair off just to have the menu running ( the game was almost finished .. it just needed to be ported )
woooudo
woooudo Il y a mois
I hope the xbox 1-x crashes and burns. Creating as many consoles as possible that make it impossible for developers to develop games because it becomes too time consuming and complicated in programming to understand is not what gaming is supposed to be about.
Just an average guy
If you think about it, one of the reasons Naughty Dog was able to get so much out of the PS3, it was because they were a Sony exclusive studio. They didn't have the pressure on them to release cross platform games and only had to develop for one system. This made a huge difference in helping them push the PS3 resulting in games such as The Last of Us and Uncharted 3
Gurjinder Singh
Gurjinder Singh Il y a mois
0:46 I have all the three games you mentioned and I believe in the power of the "Cell"
Axtmoerder
Axtmoerder Il y a mois
i remember when they discovered MLAA and found a way to offload it to the SPUs, so it cost basically nothing while freeing up resources normal anti aliasing would cost. i think pretty much all sony games between 2010-2013 used it (gow3, killzone 3, uncharted 3, tlou, ascension, puppeteer, motorstorm 3, gran turismo 6) which is why they looked so damn good and nothing on 360 came close
GraveUypo
GraveUypo Il y a 2 jours
gt6 looks worse than forza 4 (which in turn looks way worse than project gotham racing 4, but that's understandable since pgr4 is 30fps), tlou looks worse than gears 3, killzon3 looks awesome i'll give you that. the rest i'm not sure. even if you disagree, "nothing comes close" is just wrong. i think the best looking last gen game was crysis 2 on xbox 360, to be honest. frvid.com/video/vid%C3%A9o-kF67XFXq_ys.html kinda hard to argue with how fucking good this game still looks
LizeFX
LizeFX Il y a mois
Oh so the PS3 and xbox 360 had autistic CPUs?
PaulsMagicVideos
PaulsMagicVideos Il y a mois
The last uncharted would have looked like the first if the architecture wasn't hell. Saying its a disadvantage new consoles are not like this is insane. PS3 had more potential? Really? The best games on both platforms are really not very far apart at all.
Someone Special
Someone Special Il y a mois
One wish for your videos. Add the game title that is being used on-screen at the time; it would help your argument. Like the Bayonetta framerate bit.
Zhi Han Lee
Zhi Han Lee Il y a mois
Probably no wonder why it took like 12s to save a single screenshot on the PS3 version of TDU2
David P
David P Il y a mois
So it was that the devs were lazy or unwilling to dedicate more time to learning and producing proper breathtaking products
Spice Lord
Spice Lord Il y a mois
Would the assignment of out of order instructions not be a function assigned to compiler not the cpu?
Frank Smith
Frank Smith Il y a mois
Sony wanted games made for their system and only their's, so that they could not be ported. It back fired.
I will swallow you
I will swallow you Il y a mois
God, I love the 360 architecture so much. Xenon processors are soooooo good. Also, as much potential as the PS3 had, it was still needlessly obtuse. Sony could have made plenty of optimizations to the architecture itself to make development easier without much sacrifice in potential performance. Them choosing not to do so and saying "we didn't want to make it easy to develop for" is as lazy as they implied the developers were.
Cesar Avelar
Cesar Avelar Il y a mois
Good video. At least my associates in computer science did not go to waist and i understand you lol
superblaubeere27
superblaubeere27 Il y a mois
7:13 Hm... OpenGL/DirectX/Vulkan have much more complex initialization procedures for anything. I think more like using the cores efficiently was the problem
Vampir Achtneunacht
It wasn't. Game Developers are just horrendously lazy and bad in coding.
D3IM0S
D3IM0S Il y a mois
I think metal gear solid 4 was the highest performing game on the PS3. I don't even think an MGS4 xbox 360 port would be possible, due to the Xbox 360 limited Hardware. But, MGS4 was a Sony exclusive. So the dev's never had to worry about porting the game to xbox in the future. What disc based console game you know that was over 40GB in size? MGS4 was over 40GB. Lol. And everything was stored on a disc, a bluray. The game was so big, they had to compress each and every chapter of the game on the disc, to fit it all on the disc. Even dual disc xbox 360 games with an install disc and a play disc, was only about 17GB total. Idk. I think MGS4 was the best performing PS3 game in the entire PS3 lifespan. They really did put in a lot of work making MGS4 though, about 8 years if I remember right. I watched the making of MGS4 too. The director Hideo Kojima, he tested the game after each and every major or minor change done to the game. He's a perfectionist, so it stands to reason why his work is so perfect in the end. Even though I didn't like Metal Gear Solid 5 much, the game performance was still damn near perfect on any system it was played on, even older gen consoles. Especially Considering it was a next gen game at the time.
Justin Park
Justin Park Il y a 2 mois
0:51, you are showing GT6.
Social Gamer
Social Gamer Il y a 2 mois
Holy shit the PS3 was a situation where over engineering while losing performance happened. Wow!
r3conwoo
r3conwoo Il y a 2 mois
Still getting the honeys with the PS triple
azrul nizam
azrul nizam Il y a 2 mois
PS3 in a nutshell: *Driving a Ferrari on the road with a locomotive wheels.*
Sonic ThePlumber1115
Sonic ThePlumber1115 Il y a 2 mois
PS3 had the better CPU, but the Xbox 360 had the better GPU and amount of RAM.
Doug 9000
Doug 9000 Il y a 2 mois
unfortunately videogame consoles are turning from dedicated game machines into general purpose PCs.
Warhammer Hawk
Warhammer Hawk Il y a 2 mois
AC rogue and mgsv are what really showed its true potential on ps3
Haven Williams
Haven Williams Il y a 2 mois
I disagree with your conclusion that the benefit of mastering novel architecture is sometimes better than having a more accessible architecture, but I liked the information you provided a lot. Subbed.
Leo Sam
Leo Sam Il y a 2 mois
I was a ps3 fan and sony supporter because of the blu ray drive and FREE muliplayer. Now we have to pay for expensive internet and subscriptions. I converted to PC gaming and never looking back.
Revan Skywalker
Revan Skywalker Il y a 2 mois
I still love my ps3 though
Aleksandar Delic
Aleksandar Delic Il y a 2 mois
I'm so glad I dabbled in C++ a bit, it made it so much easier to understand this video. I kinda see this as parallel to CUDA cores on nvidia, however in that case, games didn't end up using it for more than "optional" features, such as physx.
Josh Rochon
Josh Rochon Il y a 2 mois
Can someone tell me the game at 6:20?
Alex Farve Entezami
Alex Farve Entezami Il y a 2 mois
So its the modern sega Saturn?
Prochain
A Brief History of Graphics
44:27